PDA

View Full Version : Our Land and Sea Dynomite dyno



Baldturbofreak
05-18-2010, 11:13 PM
Some folks have been almost upset when they make the initial pull on our Dynomite.
Here is a clip from the recent news letter from land and sea that might shed some light on why your dynosheet doesnt show what you think it "should".


Question of the Month...?

“Our dyno reads low! I know the engines/cars that we build make
more power than this dyno reports. You can even hear and feel
how much harder it is pulling than the data shows. We ‘tweaked’
our calibration to get readings equal to other shops. What is
wrong with this dyno?”

We have touched on this before. So, many of you already know
where this is heading. In the majority of these cases, the “low”
dynamometer is correct! That engine is just not outputting the
power levels the owner and/or engine builder wishes [COLOR=#231f20]it were.
However, wishing does not automatically make it so. Neither do
observers’ “ feelings ,” about noise and vibration, trump calibrated
instruments – not when it comes to measuring torque and power.
The biggest trap of them all is the conclusion that: “...my engine
must be making more power (than this dynamometer shows),
because all the other dyno results I hear about are so much higher.”
Even if you knew for certain that those other dyno results were true
(almost never the case) that still does not endow your engines with
matching (or better) performance.
Too often, however, almost everyone begins to believe everyone
else’s exaggerations (a.k.a. lies). Repeating someone’s exaggeration
(or outright fabrication), even over and over, does not eventually
make it true.
Sometimes an engine builder’s rationalization goes something like
this: if product X, Y, and Z all claim to add 20% more power – I
will be conservative and assume they each add only about 5% more
power. Therefore, my creation must be making (at least) 15% more.
Another variation: those guys have a dyno report that shows 600
horsepower. My car beat theirs. So, my engine must make even
more than 600 Hp!
Even shop owners that know something is not right often cave in to
all of this. Their excuse: “...I had to increase the numbers we were
reporting, to be competitive with the other tunning shops.”
A dyno should be treated like any other measurement tool. It has to
calibrated against verifiable standards. Measuring power from a
running engine requires knowing its delivered torque and rate of
delivery. The formula (definition) for English horsepower = torque
x RPM / 5252.1131 (using foot-pounds for torque). Most tuners
recognize that the tachometer is accurate, so the argument typically
only involves the dynamometer’s torque calibration. Fortunately,
like any scale, load-cell accuracy is easily verifiable via deadweight
testing – using certified weights.
Additionally, most absorber-equipped dynamometers can separately
plot inertial energy (stored in the system’s rotating components)
from steady-state power (absorbed via the dyno’s brake). Because
inertial readings do not require any load-cell measurements (only
accurate component measurements and delta-RPM readings) they
are available for double-checking against your load cell power data.
When the two agree, the dyno is right! This is all that the engine is
producing. Maybe it is due to the test cell’s ventilation conditions,
or some other non-engine problem, but that is another matter – your
dynamometer’s low numbers are still correct!

EmeryatSTM
05-19-2010, 12:25 AM
ITs easy. Use the dyno for what its made for then Bring the car to the track and the results will speak for them selves.

Jephro
05-19-2010, 07:06 AM
ITs easy. Use the dyno for what its made for then Bring the car to the track and the results will speak for them selves.

But this guy on this forum said that he chipped his Geo and put on a high flow muffler and he was able to get up to 230whp on the dyno he goes to.... if your dyno isnt reading that then you must have it calibrated wrong. Unfortunately every time he goes to the track he cant get everything out of the tune because the humidity is off or he cant get the tire pressure right.... so he has to back off or he would just spin his wheels all the way down. So he hasnt been able to get below his 18.42 with 65mph trap, but when he was down in Florida he said he ran a 12.3@114. He isnt lying, you can tell because of how loud his car sounds. :-D

fst88gt
05-19-2010, 11:04 AM
But this guy on this forum said that he chipped his Geo and put on a high flow muffler and he was able to get up to 230whp on the dyno he goes to.... if your dyno isnt reading that then you must have it calibrated wrong. Unfortunately every time he goes to the track he cant get everything out of the tune because the humidity is off or he cant get the tire pressure right.... so he has to back off or he would just spin his wheels all the way down. So he hasnt been able to get below his 18.42 with 65mph trap, but when he was down in Florida he said he ran a 12.3@114. He isnt lying, you can tell because of how loud his car sounds. :-D

LMFAO...but as Em said the only numbers that matter are the numbers from the track.

Baldturbofreak
05-19-2010, 11:29 AM
ITs easy. Use the dyno for what its made for then Bring the car to the track and the results will speak for them selves.

Not everyone dragraces, you of all people should understand what this post is for.
It gets old, fast.

fst88gt
05-19-2010, 12:54 PM
Every Dyno will read different anyway...

Sent from my Droid using Tapatalk

black85IROC
05-19-2010, 12:55 PM
NO, ONLY TRAP SPEEDS MATTAR!!!! STRAIGHTER IS BETTER!!!

Muckman
05-19-2010, 12:59 PM
Im curious if anyone has had their car dyno'd on both STM and BTF dynos and how different the #s are.

cretinx
05-19-2010, 01:08 PM
shouldn't matter what the numbers are as long as you can track improvements and make accurate measurements from one point to the next.

neloner
05-19-2010, 01:20 PM
.....

juicedz4
05-19-2010, 01:46 PM
For me I could realy care less what the exact numbers are so long as I know the tune is good and reliable. So what if it reads less on one dyno than another. Obviously if you just want numbers to brag, go to a dyno that will give you the highest numbers for your dyno queen.

Also, track times dont mean much etiher. The tune is only one part of the whole package.... driver, setup, weight etc are all part of the equation. Plus like Rick said, not all people drag race.

Dan

GGSE
05-19-2010, 01:59 PM
I only care about the difference between the baseline and the ending result. The numbers, themselves, are almost irrelevant.

Baldturbofreak
05-19-2010, 02:12 PM
shouldn't matter what the numbers are as long as you can track improvements and make accurate measurements from one point to the next.

That is the truth and at the end of the day, it's all that matters around this shop.
But lots and lots of people wear the dynosheet like it's a badge of honor, and trying to explain to them why they "only" make xxx when their friends cousin's brother makes YYY gets old. Having it explained by the people who make the dyno is a bit easier then havign them hear it from me, the dyno owner.

71velle
05-19-2010, 06:04 PM
So, not all customers are educated? lol

Baldturbofreak
05-19-2010, 06:56 PM
So, not all customers are educated? lol
Touche'
However not all want to beleive what your telling them.

Cleck
05-19-2010, 06:58 PM
It because Rick's dyno measures true horsepower, not added by sticker horsepower. Facts son.

mikecentola
05-20-2010, 07:50 AM
we have a sticker dyno to measure that difference

3G_SDS
05-20-2010, 08:09 AM
All I want in a dyno is consistency for tuning comparison/confirmation.

harvboi05
05-20-2010, 01:49 PM
it sickens me how many people do a comparison between dyno to dyno and and then consider either dyno inferior to the other. like everyone else that said it, if using the same dynamometer as before/after comparison tool youre good to go. once you start comparing different dyno numbers to eachother without the proper procedures being performed, everything goes out the window. even between the same make and model dynos. performance shops dont care about comparing numbers. its literally a waste of time (and time = money) for them to run the required comparative procedures. therefore its a waste of time for customers to compare their numbers to another dynos too.

rick - how much you charge for just roll time on ur dyno.

71velle
05-20-2010, 07:17 PM
Touche'
However not all want to beleive what your telling them.

I know what you are saying, a friend of mine owns a engine dyno and goes through the same thing. Most people have no clue about dyno numbers or correction factors.

zmainiac
05-26-2010, 09:43 AM
How do you like the land and sea dyno? the guys from our shop were thinking of getting one of those maybe in a year or 2. any tips or preference on different models.

Baldturbofreak
05-26-2010, 11:09 AM
I love it, it's easy to use, has powerful software features and is much more capable a tool then what I use it for.
In retrospect- I would not have gotten the huge 30" dyno. It was expensive to setup in the pit and I wish the absorber option didnt add $20K to the price.
The newer dual 12" or Dual 16" with eddybrake would have been much more suitable for my needs/shop space. It simply has some small ramps to get on it.

THe HP rating they use on their dyno's is a rough gestimate based on the limit's of adhesion/contact area on the roll. But the knurl they use is so sharp I have never really had a problem with a car slipping on my 30, and i dont think it would be an issue on a dual 12 or 16.
One car this spring was slipping on the roll and it was making 669rwtq uncorrected on bald ass 255/55/r17's.

Any Fan of goodtimes would buy the Land and Sea...it's DYNO-MITE!

1642

Sonic Boost
06-05-2010, 02:12 AM
I'd like to add to this thread a little bit. Being on Ricky's dyno has been a VERY useful tool. What has been neglected to be mentioned in this thread is that using a dyno as "tool" is not as straight forward as it seems. An overloaded, or underloaded dyno make the tuning process a little bit obscures, and it is not as simple as using it as "measurement device". For instance, an under loaded dyno will cause skewed AFR readings that dont correspond correctly to a full street load seen while driving. It has been my first hand experience that Rick's dyno, although lacking a load bank to "stall" or overload a cars dyno run, loads almost perfect to the street...at least on my car as I have seen. This means that the correct load cells for AFR and timing are accessed during the tuning process meaning that tuning done on the dyno correspond perfectly with what the owner will see on the street.
To say the dyno is "just a tool" and "who cares what the number is" are a bit misleading of statements, otherwise dyno days and dyno tuning should be viewed as a complete waste of money. A well calibrated and properly loaded "rolling road" is an invaluable tool to us that are looking to tune our cars.